Why the Future of Luxury is Tech-First, with Mario Lang, Executive Director & Global Technology Lead at Estée Lauder

[upbeat music] Welcome to another show of 51 Insights, today with Mario Long.

Mario Long is Executive Director, Global Retail Technology at Estée Lauder. Mario, welcome to the show. Thanks, Marc. Couldn't be more excited. Same for me.

Super excited to have you here to talk all about luxury and technology and how the future is gonna look like. You've been in the industry for quite a while. Uh, you're a veteran. You have seen a lot of different things.

Where do you see the biggest opportunities right now for luxury brands? So first of all, thanks for having me, Marc. Huge fan of all your publications, of your podcast, of your Substack. I've been following for a while.

I think your type of, um, you know, output is really the reason why I got into tech and, and doing what I'm doing.

Um, and you know, it's a loaded question, and I think what really helps me, uh, as a leader in the space and what I always use is, as, as a filter, honestly, is the, uh, six Ds of exponentials by Peter Diamandi- Diamandis.

I don't know if everybody knows him. He's obviously out there with the XPRIZE and so on.

But when I see new technology arising and stuff coming towards our brands, I always look at it from, through the lens of, you know, digitization, deception, disruption, demonetization, uh, democratization, I think, and dematerialization.

So I'm gonna use these, these usually always to look at something that's approaching us.

And I think when we talk about digitization and luxury, the, the star of the show has always been the product and the physical services in the store, right?

White glove services really make luxury, but it requires consumers to step their foot- feet into the store.

So converting these products into, and services into digital formats, you know, making them even more accessible is the future to drive growth in luxury as well, I believe.

You know, it allows brands to be just closer to their consumers wherever they are, accompanying them where- wherever they choose to interact with the brand.

Um, and I think technology really helps transcend product now and goes beyond the regular in-store experience, you know. I'm seeing so many amazing things happening in digital passports, digital ownership.

I know we'll go into detail there. They're elevated and oftentimes really well integrated with a mobile-first approach, and so environments that consumers know and appreciate, right?

Everybody deals with their mobile on day in and day out, and they don't require PII data, and I think that's so critical because the biggest barrier in the past to get to know our consumer was extracting information from them and for them to establish an account first with us, so that we can start talking the same language.

And I think that's exciting with the technology today.

It, it really lowers that barrier significantly, and it's important that it's executed well because frankly, nothing kills luxury more, I believe, than complicated and non-intuitive tech.

Um, you know, and DPPs really open a truly intimate exchange between brand and consumer.

I know I only talked about one D, and I'm not boring everybody, but I think the other pieces in digitization that I'm excited about, and it's in everybody's mouth and mind, is AI agents.

I really think that, you know, they're creeping into all facets of life, and they're really helping us on a luxury side to develop these white glove, truly personalized, intimate relationships that we c- with the consumer that we're not able to do today on a human-to-human level, you know?

Um, so I'm really excited what's happening there because I think really, if we want to have that exchange at the level that luxury wants to play at, that's, that's going to be, uh, a significant, uh, improvement when we look at that.

Um- Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead, sorry. You, you-- yeah. You, you already mentioned two critical technologies now, blockchain and AI, and you already talked about AI agents.

I actually wanted to ask you, in your day-to-day life, uh, at Estée Lauder, what is more prevalent? Is it, is it AI? Is it blockchain?

And if you just give, could give our listeners a sneak peek into those conversations at the water cooler or in your meetings, how do you think about AI?

Is, is that, uh, still a kind of a broad topic, or are you already super deep into, into that? It's definitely a massive topic e-everywhere, right? And I think taking the right approach is insanely critical here.

I think a company should always see AI through the lens of external and-- internal and external, um, opportunities.

For many companies, and I agree with that, a really great first foray into AI is trying to understand how do- how can we leverage it internally to increase efficiencies and productivity, right, in many of our processes.

Um, and you know, many large corporations are taking, uh, really a great approach with some of the lar- large tech platforms to infuse that into their everyday, um, uh, you know, processes and working, uh, ways of working.

We're doing the same. Um, if, as it relates to the out- uh, external consumer, I think you have to be a little bit more careful, especially in luxury, because, um, it has to be 150% right, you know?

It, it cannot be, for example, a chatbot that is delivering, um, you know, I would say regular or easily available information, but then drops or doesn't work properly when human interaction is required, right?

So the first, I think, learning ground should be for a company to test it internally, build it into the workforce, and then establish, uh, the interaction with the external consumer, but in a measured way.

Because again, like I said, a very careful, developed, and, and earned luxury perception online with a consumer can be killed overnight if the next step is not properly curated or developed, and I've seen that before.

So for me- An AI agent e-engaging with a human, uh, with a consumer really has to understand and anticipate at what point can I not serve the consumer at the level that's expected of me, and when should I, when should I pepper in human interaction or intervention?

That is very critical. Really, really important. Yeah.

And I would love to dive a little bit deeper into some examples, uh, that you're building with AI agents, also examples that you mentioned before, digital product passports.

Before we do that, though, I'm wondering how do you think about all those technologies coming along? We, we all know we had a huge hype a couple of years ago with NFTs. Almost every consumer brand started NFT projects.

Now it's AI. As a technology leader for a consumer brand, how do you think about those technologies? You know, first and foremost, like I said earlier, I believe technology makes luxury more accessible.

You know, I, I think it really lowers the threshold for new consumers. You know, let's talk about, you know, you know,

bringing the luxury experience from a store to the consumer through technology is, is easier in my opinion today because we can extend services right to their mobile or to wherever they are, where they, you know, where they live online.

And for me, especially when we talk about the new generations today, it really takes away the pressure of walking into a store, feeling slightly intimidated.

Still, you know, having some sort of anon-anonymity, anonymity online is key because not everybody today that is in, in luxury or wants to delve in luxury or wants to invest in a luxury item is actually there to showcase that, you know?

I think, uh, the new consumers today think a lot about self-care and see fulfillment from owning or doing, doing something, something nice for themselves, and their first, uh, thought might not be, "Oh, I wanna be seen with a Birkin bag out there."

I think, I think that's critical because that's just lowering the, uh, access... Uh, that's increasing the accessibility and lowering the threshold, you know, for new consumers.

So I'm, I'm super c- excited about that, the convenience it delivers, but it also comes with a risk, and I mentioned that earlier.

You know, when it's not delivered right, when the product is not on par with the physical service and the physical product, it's, it's really diminishing the brand equity and the brand value, and that's, that's a risk in my opinion.

All right, let's dive a bit deeper into blockchain. Again, blockchain has been a huge topic. Some of your portfolio brands have launched NFT collections. How do you think about NFTs? Maybe how...

A-and also, how did you think about it three years ago, and how do you think about it today? Yeah. So I think, uh, first when, when they came up, I thought, uh, "Oh my God, I missed the boat."

[laughs] You know, like, when during the pandemic when everybody was, uh, buying up NFTs, um, and really, you know, value seems to only go up, and I think, I think it was really, uh, difficult to understand at that point that it was, you know, a moment in time that I think is critical.

Uh, a new technology was introduced. The value was there in my opinion. But you gotta be very clear I think now from the onset about intent and expected outcome when you introduce NFTs or blockchain, you know.

For a company and a brand, it's important to understand, is it an awareness play that I'm, that I'm i-interested in here, right, with a connected to new product launch or a charity activation, you know?

Is it supposed to have a utility character, right? Unlocking gated access. From a loyalty perspective, I think it's very, very interesting.

Um, and it must be communicated, especially within a brand and a company to all levels on what is considered success.

I think when many brands dabbled in this space and they launched something quickly and they did not do the storytelling correctly, um, it was very difficult to communicate KPIs or success to internal stakeholders because it was just not really well understood.

Um, and then I think what was also really a little bit lacking in the last, uh, you know, during the pandemic, I believe, was the supporting environment that's required to play in this space, to collect the NFTs, to transfer them.

Um, I think many people that got into that were absolutely not aware of what it requires and did not know the space at all, and then somewhat were disheartened or disappointed.

I think that still requires a lot of awareness and I think a lot of training or education to catch up to that because I still think that part is not fully clear to the broad masses yet.

So the accessibility in my opinion is lacking a little bit in NFTs. But, um, to close out, I think, Marc, NFTs as a collectible tied to a brand,

I'm a little bit skeptical about the intrinsic value here and if it's a fad.

But if it comes with added utility, especially in the space of CRM, especially in the space of loyalty or brand and consumer engagement, I'm extremely bullish about it and believe it's the future. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I, I certainly share that skepticism as well. We, we looked at over 200 consumer brands, and most of those brands stopped their NFT activations.

Uh, what I observed in the last couple of months was that we see a lot more, uh, I would say, specialized use cases, um, for example, across, uh, sport clubs or entertainment brands that really use NFTs as part of a broader loyalty ecosystem to give some value back to consumers or generate more data on their consumers.

So NFTs is obviously a, a use case for blockchain.

Then you also talked about digital product passports, and I would like to dive there a little bit deeper and hear your opinion about what do you think is the potential of digital product passports, why are luxury brands using that, and where do you see this going?

Yeah, you know, it's really something in the last few years. So I have to add, uh, my background is supply chain, right?

Uh, I started very traditional supply chain, you know, sourcing and development of apparel, of product.

I got then into supply chain strategies and supply chain digitization, and then I came full 360 and now consumer-facing technology.

I always think about technology and consumer engagement from a value chain end-to-end perspective.

And you know, for me, um- Digital product passports are insanely exciting because the blockchain tech- blockchain technology can deliver for the brand on the procurement side, but can also deliver massively for the brand and the consumer on the using or retail side.

And, um, I believe, again, what I said earlier, the entry point and the bo- the barrier today for a consumer to come to a brand and say, "Hi, I'm Mario. Here's my information.

This is what I'm curious and interested about, and I'm making the effort to, to, you know, activate a profile, open an account with you online, and I'm handing over my information to you. Please serve me well."

I think that is still a high barrier, and I'm really excited about the ease of use of how digital product pla- pa- passports can unlock that communication channel is insanely exciting to me.

What it can do from an authentication perspective. When I think about luxury retail, I can think about resale opportunities, right?

Understanding what's the past history, what's the history of my product, who owned it before, avoiding counterfeits.

I think the list is very, very long, and brands and consumers alike benefit the same way, in my opinion. And for me, this is the cookie of the future. It's the CRM engagement of the future.

I feel very strongly about this.

The only challenge I see right now, to be frank, is that I currently don't see an ID management platform that is truly end to end, that makes the handshake between procurement, retail, and then user, you know, owning by own- owned by the user very easy and I'm waiting for that to happen because once that happens, the cradle to, uh, cradle to gra- grave, so to speak, is digitally, uh, documented and it w- will be absolutely phenomenal, so I'm excited about that.

And by procurement, you mean that the digital product passport essentially already comes to life when the product is created. Is born, right, in the supply chain. Yeah.

So I- what I would like to see is, I always was, uh, joking at my old company, PVH, when I worked with Tommy and Calvin, I always said what we really should have is a supply chain team that is called thread supply, right?

Like you, you focus on the physical garment and we need a bit supply team that really accompanies that birth of the product with a digital product as well.

And that, and that really would deliver transparency throughout the supply chain, right?

The biggest challenge in supply chain still today, I believe, is really understanding origin of materials, provenance of your, of your product. Where is it? How was it made? What went into it?

Down to the level one, two and three suppliers. You know, the ca- uh, the chemicals that were used, where did the thread come from? Where was it assembled?

It is still a very difficult process today, and I think that technology, when product is birthed, should already come with the physical product.

And then at point of sale is for, in my opinion, where the ownership changes from the brand owning the product through the supply chain, handing it to the consumer, and then the intimate relationship of how do I serve you well with this product will happen through the digital space.

I think for me that is the future. I'm just waiting for someone to build that platform.

W- when you, when you talk to your colleagues internally and colleagues outside of your organization, is this something that's prevalent?

Is there like a general understanding of a digital product passport is something we wanna build or we're building and that's, that's coming, or is it still kind of a niche topic?

Marc, you know, I've gotta be honest and, and this is not, this is really not isolated to where, to my company now.

It's been the same wherever I went because I started this conversation already seven, eight, nine years ago, uh, in apparel. I think everybody understands that

it is the future, uh, even from a regulatory perspective, right? The EU is going to demand, uh, digital product passports for, um, you know, uh, f- for sustainability and their circularity reasons, and rightfully so.

But I do think that the majority of the brands I've worked with have still seen this more of a, an awareness or, um, you know, o- o- of a, of a play that is not really utilitarian and more of a let's, let's create a buzz around this and make it cool so that a consumer scans their product and they can see something nice.

I don't see currently yet a lot of players that can identify this as a truly

groundbreaking, I would say, value chain end-to-end kind of technology that, in my opinion, should be part, should be as important as an ERP platform or should actually be layered onto that, you know?

I, I think you now have a technology that can bridge everything from the beginning to the end of a product. Um, and, um, I currently see this as a huge opportunity.

I just don't see anyone yet, uh, sinking a lot of money into this. I don't see it yet. But people are talking about it, but in very isolated pockets along the chain. Yeah. Yeah.

And do you think this will also be demanded strongly enough by consumers? It's the same thing as, uh, when we go back to the, to the '60s, right? And we talk about disruption, you know?

Things usually happen in pockets, right? Like the Nikes of the world or some other brands, they start with something like artifact, right, at Nike. They start with something, the whole industry was starting to listen.

I still think they did something phenomenal there.

Uh, there might be multiple reasons why it didn't fully take off, but I think it will be looked at as one of these things where I think people will look back and say, "How did we ever-- could I ever not know what is in my closet or what I'm using?"

Because it wasn't on my mobile or wherever I'm spending most of my time, right?

I think digital closets, um, and everything that comes with it, a brand recommending outfits, a brand recommending upselling, cross-selling opportunities, telling me, "You own this MAC red lipstick and it goes well with this eyeliner that we're dropping now."

You know? Like, and by the way, on your mobile- Try it out virtually. A virtual try-on.

For me, these services live t- on the digital side and fit in perfectly with this, and I just think until someone does it well enough for the broad mass to understand, "Oh, wow, this is changing my life," it won't really create that momentum, but it could be a little bit deceptive as well.

It could be that we think nothing is moving, and all of a sudden it just explodes.

But I strongly believe, same as I have my bank account on my phone and everything else, I will value having a digital closet or, uh, s- or a wallet showing me what I own and what else could complement what I own today.

Um, I'm actually in shock that this, this is not further developed to date. I really am. Yeah. Yeah. Agree.

So let, let, let's dive into an adjacent technology, which is what many people two years ago called the Metaverse. Mm-hmm. However you want to define it, I think it's just a virtual commerce or immersive experiences.

How do you think about all of those virtual activations that happened in the last two, three years, the whole Metaverse hype, and blending physical and digital into something that's useful and also revenue-driving for a luxury brand?

Yeah. Well, it's also, again, such a loaded topic, and you might have to cut me off at times. Where to begin? I do think there's a future for that. I think it has not really been... VR hasn't taken off because of the...

No hardware is commercially available, in my opinion, that feels intuitive and easy to use and people will embrace it, you know? So far, it's all been heavy, expensive, and just not ready for the masses.

As with everything, the second this changes, the second the iterations are getting to the point where it's becoming another mobile phone, something that I, is easy for me to wear and delivers value throughout my day constantly, it'll blow up.

I do s- currently believe that AR, again, through the lens of mobile, can deliver significant value to the consumer in physical environments.

We've used it, um, at kiosks and outposts for new product launches where you have a very beautiful build already, um, that has, you know, sensorial triggers built in, you know, you smell, you see, you hear.

And then with your mobile and the AR piece, uh, layered over, you actually now have really amazing CTAs, you know, trigger points that allow the consumer in that moment to actually engage with the brand.

And that gets really interesting, I think, when you don't have specialists or brand advocates on site that can service that consumer.

I'm talking about travel retail or other big events, you know, where you might have a build or an outpost, so to speak, there and a kiosk, but you don't have 20, um, employees there to serve the customers.

I do believe that, that overlaying AR with, uh, physical experiences really expands it to another level, and I'm really, really excited about that as well. Um- Mm-hmm...

coming from apparel and fashion, I do hope, I'm excited, I do hope there might be a world in the future where a future consumer wakes up and says, "I'm going to buy this digital Calvin Klein dress, and my, my wearable will allow me to wear this for others to see."

Or, you know, like, something like that, so that consumers actually pay for the IP to a brand and a designer and not necessarily the physical piece.

I can totally see this becoming a future, uh, uh, you know, a future or, uh, reality, and I think that's when it gets really, really interesting.

In, in that activation that you just mentioned or, or any of those activations with outposts, but probably also in physical stores where you deployed that technology,

do you see any impact in revenue or impact in engagement? Can you measure that, or is it at that point more of a, an engagement stunt, if you will? Yeah. So I think you're right.

What we talked about earlier is obviously how can you measure something, uh, and take that engagement and turn it into, um, you know, either conversion or buzz or, you know, something lasting.

And when it comes to new product launches, I think what's important is to spread the word. It definitely does that.

People, especially if you make it shareable, right, um, this is actually where Web3 comes into play again as well.

I think it's extremely exciting to use NFTs as well for special moments, um, such as a new store opening, or a new product launch, or a really well-curated experience, and allow people to claim something and share it, you know?

I think that is really, really well and allows us then, through these CTAs, it allows us then also to understand how big was that engagement and how big of a buzz was it.

Next step will be if you hand out these NFTs, if you hand out these tokens tied to an experience like that, you have to be able to build an ecosystem afterwards that allows users to take that and do something with it.

The utility piece is important again, right? I was part of this. I was there. You know, here I am again. Look what, you know, look, look where I was and how I participated with your brand.

And again, that's another thing right now, Mark, where I feel I don't see a lot of platforms that make it very, very easy for consumers to do that beyond just their brand.

If it's really just a brand, there's not a lot of, um... I would say, uh, it's not enticing for a consumer to say, "I'm installing an app," or, "I'm installing a wallet." A wallet more so than an app.

But if it's only within those four walls, you have to keep feeding them with exciting content and exciting, uh, activations to keep them there.

And if you're not doing that, uh, it's gonna stop, and it will not have done much for you. And that's the last point I want to make.

Some of the biggest challenges I've seen is actually not technology, it's has a company or a brand built a team around these future capabilities that are required, like delivering content in that space, understanding the consumer journey in that space, and keep feeding the consumer with exciting activations that make them come back.

I don't see a lot of brands right now that go beyond their regular marketing teams that are really laser-focused on this technology and can deliver, can deliver these sort of exciting experiences, and that's really then the downfall.

You can't do this once. You have to keep feeding it or it's over. Mm-hmm.

Do you think there will be a future where we will see interoperable loyalty experiences on a, a group level or even a, between, between brands themselves? I, I truly hope so.

I mean, um, I, you know, coming from fashion and coming from large, uh, corporations in the luxury space, I can tell you, uh, companies are really interested in understanding where does the consumer shop, how are they shopping, who are they shopping with, where are they buying my product?

The biggest black box for a brand, uh, is really, uh, that is a wholesaler, is really to understand what's actually happening in the department store, you know?

Consumers buy my product in a department store, but I don't really get a lot of information there, you know?

Sure, I might understand what are the dollars that were spent, but I'm not allowed to have a one-on-one relationship with my consumer, right?

So I think it's in the interest of a lot of industries, brands, corporations to establish a common platform that can do that.

Thinking, again, what's the most realistic, I feel like it has to be something that is already well-established, that the consumer knows how to use, and that is, that they wi- are willing to accept very easily, and that is going back to the operating systems of, like, Android, Apple, and so on.

But you know how much effort it takes to get something built into these operati- operating systems. It's the same conversation I've been having with, uh, with teams and brands around what's after the QR code, right?

There's a lot of, lot of great um, uh, uh, development in digital watermarks, but if it's not native to the operating system of a mobile, then it's just the barrier is too high for someone to download an app to read these.

And so it's the same with this. It has to be at the most common, highest level, and if we get it into an OS somewhere, it's gonna... all hell will break loose. [laughs] Yeah.

[clears throat] And, and one of the arguments that you often hear when it comes to interoperable loyalty, or however you wanna call it, is that brands don't really have an interest in giving up power or luring their consumers to another brand.

They just wanna keep them in their ecosystem, and that's why it probably won't work. Do you agree with that? If we think through the PII lens, probably.

If we think Web3 a little bit more anonymous and lowering the threshold on how to communicate to consumers without them having to give away their email, their real name, their everything, I see this becoming a reality, you know?

Because what, what Web3 does as well, in my opinion, is it also puts the control of data and how the engagement should, is supposed to work into the, to the user and owner's hand.

If I opt in a claim, claim ownership of a token, or if I opt in to, uh, establish a DPP with someone, I can control what I'm sharing and how much I'm sharing and what level of engagement I wanna have with that brand.

PII, I think it's either all or nothing, or, you know, you had to give your name and your email at least, and that's when it becomes a little bit trickier.

But if, if it's more anonymized and it's more at a meta- metadata level and it's at a Web3 level, I do think it opens the door for, for everybody to be benefiting from this.

I see it slightly different, and that's what, that's really- Mm-hmm... I'm, I'm hopeful for that. Yeah. Sa- same, same here. For the last part of the session, I would love to dive into AI. Yes.

You mentioned it at the beginning. You were thinking about AI a- agents and probably many, many different other topics within AI.

I'm interested in what is something or what are use cases that excite you most that you either build internally or that, that you see somewhere else that are focused on AI?

I think AI is extremely good, obviously, at detecting patterns, right?

Much better than humans sifting through a lot of data, and it really allows us to work with metadata, you know, while still being able to seg- segment customers and, uh, detecting patterns and behaviors.

And it goes back to a little bit, like what I said earlier, you know, with Limity and, uh, consumers having to give away everything about themselves. But

where I see the biggest bang for AI is really some of the unsexy stuff as well that many customer, uh, companies haven't really unlocked yet, and that is on the, on the operational side, you know?

I think, um, obviously on the consumer-facing side, AI will, you know, help us with personalized offers, you know, tell the consumers what they want even if they don't know what they want yet, cross-selling, upselling, and so on.

But the biggest challenge I usually see is all, all that focus, all that effort is all failing if the back end can't be, can't, can't fulfill what the f- front end is promising, you know?

So the front-end selling has to work in unison with the back-end fulfillment.

And I'm seeing still a lot of l- gaps with companies that are not using data analytics or AI to optimize their inventories, their demand signals. Pricing and promo is a huge thing.

Those are low-hanging fruit where I feel like a lot of companies, if they truly think about dollar impacts, are not taking advantage of that today yet, you know? So that's number one.

And then truly, like I said earlier, I do think GenAI will make a massive difference for luxury brands that might not be at a global level yet to, to be able to offer services on a truly, um, personalized white glove level with less.

It'll democratize that space further. I feel really strongly about that. And, uh, and then last but not least, huge impacts on the creative side for us as well.

You know, I do think people working alongside with AI Will be really good and, and more bi- uh, busier at curating, curating, um, content, curating creative, uh, creative products versus, you know, coming up with something from scratch.

I gotta be honest, when I talk to luxury brands, I hear a lot about, "This looks like AI. This is AI."

So there's a bit of a, there is a bit of a knock on AI because they believe some of the imagery, um, it looks like AI, and I... You know, let's be honest, some of it does.

But I think we're in the phase right now where we're, where creative teams are really learning on how to leverage AI, and where AI does the legwork, and where they will use it to push it further.

So I would say operationally, number one, I'm super excited about that. Many people don't do it yet. Then consumer-facing, it's gonna further democratize the luxury market, you know? You, you don't need

5,000 people in a luxury brand to service a consumer at the highest level anymore. I do think you can do it with less. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

One thing I wanted to mention quick about agents as well, because it's in everybody's, um, mind right now, and there's a lot of chatter about it.

I think it's so important for these agents, like I said earlier, to read the conversation into the future with the, with the user that might be chatting or engaging with the agent, anticipating where it's going.

And true luxury for me would mean that agent understands in five, six, or seven sentences, I'm gonna get to a point where a human needs to take over, and that human, I'm preparing that already in the background so that that luxury consumer is not sitting there waiting for 10 minutes for a human to interact.

Those are the nuances I think that are critical in, in luxury if we wanna develop and in- introduce AI agents in all sorts of things, you know, not just on a chatbot side, on, on many levels as well.

That's a very good point. Uh, last question, Mario. Yes. Um, uh, there are many brand leaders, technology leaders listening here, and we talked about lots of different technologies.

If you could give them one tip or an approach or a method of how you deal with all that information and all those different technologies you could start with, what is your secret to success there?

You know, I'm, I'm still learning a lot. I'm learning from your, from your publications every single day. I love talking to other leaders. I love listening to podcasts.

So that's, that's my number one source of, you know, trying, trying to understand the world around me, but also knowing I'm really not an expert in all of it, many of it, you know?

Like, so I'm just, again, understanding that part.

But then if you look at a five to 10-year horizon, for me, staying ahead really means you have to consider, you know, a clear understanding of technology as it relates to now, soon, and on the horizon for your company with a good assessment of possible use cases, right, that deliver results in, I think, three buckets in my opinion are deliver engagement or increase engagement, conversion, or productivity and efficiency.

Many times when you talk with internal stakeholders, be careful. Don't come out of the gate with the word innovation.

Be a really good storyteller and, and, and understand if you come with a solution, how does it tie into the problem statements that the company's currently looking at?

How does it connect with the risk DNA of that company? Don't come with a crazy strategy that might come to fruition in 15 years if the problem is the bottom line right now. And then, you know,

and then the space in between all of that I think is read the room.

Read the room and, and make sure you have those connections with your stakeholders internally and, and understand how to spin and st- tell that story properly. Storytelling is huge, absolutely huge.

'Cause if you understand who you're talking to, you also know how you have to present something to the stakeholders internally to get support. That's really- Yeah... easy as that. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah.

That's a great ending word. Thank you so much for coming on the show. It was a pleasure to have you here. It's super interesting. Where can people find more about you and Estée Lauder?

Visit all of our stores or go to our esteelauder.com website. All our brands are there. Online presence as well, and you can find me on LinkedIn. Happy to chat. Perfect. Thank you, Mario. Uh, thank you- Thank you...

everyone for tuning in. Uh, if you like this, retweet, repost, share it with your friends. It helps us keep this going. Thanks, Marc. Have a good day. Bye-bye. Thanks.

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