Art, community, and Web3 with Mastercard's Sebastian Oddo

[upbeat music] Cool.

So welcome to another episode of Dematerialized Podcast, and I'm very, very happy that Sebastian Oddo, Vice President of Global Digital Marketing Innovation at Mastercard, joined us today. Sebastian, hello. How are you?

GM. GM, GM. GM, GM. Yeah. [laughs] I'm doing well. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. Thank you for coming on the show. I'm super excited for that. You're based in New York, right? Yeah.

It's right outside of New York in Purchase. Very cool.

So we got to know each other a couple of weeks ago, and we had a conversation where I just found it was very, very exciting where you're coming from, your background, what you did in Web3 in your career, but also what you're doing at Mastercard.

And to- today we're gonna talk about that, about your story, and particularly about your perspective of what's going on in Web3, how you see Web3 in the context of consumer engagement, and I'm just very excited to do that.

Yeah, so before we jump in, if you're n- new here, please like and subscribe. That helps us keeping up the show. We suggest we just start right in with the first one. Seb, who are you?

[laughs] Well, I have a sticker on my... Actually, do I have- Look, who are you? See that? Look at that. Yeah, I see. I see.

Uh, one of my, one of my favorite artists of all time, Shantell Martin, asks that question a lot, and it's something I have a sticker on my laptop too.

I'll tell you who I am, but then I'll tell you also, like, where I wanna go as a person. So my name's Sebastian Oddo. I've been in Web3 since 2020, and working in the brand world, which has been really fun for me.

For many, many years I worked in sports, and I was the geek in the room full of many well-rounded sports folks, and I would always look into what was around the corner.

And I had the opportunity to work on many brands and work for many athletes and help them think about what was next in their careers, and I kept seeing over and over this idea of blockchain.

So I dove in deep and really went from that sports marketing agency over to work for Vayner3 for a year, and that was during the height of everything with Gary Vaynerchuk and team. It was amazing.

It was a great experience of learning how to launch Web3 activations for brands, but also just, like, education around helping support people that are in legal or in marketing or in regulatory, and help them understand where we're all going with this.

And then from there, had the opportunity to come on over to Mastercard and help them lead Web3 efforts globally on the global digital marketing team, and now really focusing on innovation.

Not leaving Web3, but really thinking about, like, the convergence of where AI and Web3 might come, or any new emerging technologies. Yeah. So that's a little bit about me. That's very interesting.

We're gonna talk about this later as well. But first my question is, what got you excited about Web3? How did you get started, and why did you join the space?

Yeah, I think I have three young kids at home, and as I think about their careers and what they're like my guinea pigs about the future.

And to see how they interact with digital technology in their lives really interests me. They ask me... When I was younger, I would ask my parents for physical items. They tend to ask me more for digital items.

Um, and that's, that sparks my interest and that's when I really started dive in deeper.

And Web3 for me, at the core, I've, I'm centered around art in my office here at home, so the artist is at the core of Web3, in my opinion, and I think that was what initially sparked my interest is like, wow, this is a new way for artists to make a living- Yeah...

to really think about how they can create generational wealth for themselves, and there's a real opportunity for brands to jump in and support that as well.

When, when you joined Vayner3 a couple of years ago, how did you think about Web3 as a tech- technology, and how did it fit into the overall kind of consumer engagement mix that you were very familiar to? Yeah.

I think brands at the beginning of 2021 when NFTs were exploding, there were two different types of brands that were entering the space, brands that wanted that, that specific moment of there's a shiny thing in the room, let's make something, let's make a big headline for it, and then there were ones that we talked to that really wanted to build blockchain technology into the future.

So think about patents, think about how this could be integrated into their technology stack and then their marketing efforts for the long term, not just a year or two years, like 20 years from now.

So those were the sort of things that we...

So we really did need to look at the company, their objectives, and then from there, where it made the most sense authentically to connect with their consumers, and that was the fun part of it all.

That was the creative part. Yeah. Great that you mentioned that. Another topic we're gonna touch upon later, connecting with consumers, what's different now with Web3. But before we do that, a quick question.

I know I asked you that before, but it's just fun to see you're sitting in your office. For the ones who are listening, you have a lot of art behind you. You talked about artists.

Who are those artists, and what's some things you could point out for our listeners that you collect? Sure. So for me, well, it goes back to there's a bunch of art that I collect.

One, the mysterious art, which is like the Hashmask community. I'm a big fan of the work there, 'cause there's a mystery to a lot of the art there, and there's a lot of patterns in the background and... Right?

For me, that really sparks my interest. And then you have artists like Amber Vittoria, who really inspires me with her colors and her line work, similar to the one that I said before, Shantell Martin, more line work.

Very simple art really tends to lean well with me. I try to simplify my life in many ways, and the art speaks in that way. And then I'm also inspired by people like Sarah Bauman of Women and Weapons.

People who have created art

out of a passion for themselves, and created their world centered around art and how she le- her story's amazing, how she left her career in the medical industry and has really focused on the art to just be passionate in life and focus on what truly matters to her.

Those are the artists that I tend to gravitate towards, that have really inspiring stories. And y- y- you talked before about the intersection of, of artists and Web3.

How does that take place, and what's special about artists doing art with Web3 technology? Yeah.

Timepieces, what Time did, and Keith Grossman when he was there and leading the efforts there, really did spark a lot of interest in my collecting, especially around digital artists.

There's a new way artists can make a living in this world, and it could be around, centered around building a community, raising enough money to have maybe a real gallery event for them to showcase their work by have, asking the community for donations, by purchasing their NFTs as art.

So there's a lot of opportunity, and that Timepieces community and how they set up investing in residencies, artists not just for marketing efforts for a one-and-done project, but, like, a residency program for a year.

That's just amazing. That's just so cool to think about. So I think the opportunity for artists, I also think about Picasso and some of the artists that I studied in, like, art history.

Like, their families, based off of their art, were never really able to earn that sort of generational wealth over time because once that painting was sold originally, there was no sort of royalties, right, in the future, um, because of it.

So new world, new opportunity for artists to really make a living, and I'm really excited to see where it all goes. So it's a good keyword, you just said royalties.

For the ones who are listening who might not be as familiar as we are with Web3 and blockchain technology, I would like to take a step back before we jump in into- Sure...

to, uh, the details and just ask you, how did you describe, a couple of years ago when you joined Vayner3, how do you describe Web3 to brands?

How do you do it today at Mastercard for your colleagues, to the artists, to the clients you work with? It's all centered around community.

So how we spoke about it was a new opportunity for major brands, Fortune 500 brands, Fortune 100 brands, to really connect with their community in a new way. So that could be centered around a number of things.

One, for me it was around education and onboarding.

How could a brand, a traditional Web2 brand, really help think about emerging technology in the future, and how they could educate their customers to help them to be smarter?

So community was one of those core pillars, and one of the ways to build community is be authentic with them.

So what we're doing at Mastercard with the Artist Accelerator, which we could chat about, the Mastercard Artist Accelerator, is by teaching artists and musicians about the future of music and how they can use the technology to their advantage to build careers while also having fans be part of their journey through a token-gated website, right?

Because the NFT gets you through to a website. That, to me, is, like, at the core of what major brands should be doing, is helping onboarding in a really fun way.

It's very interesting that you mention authenticity, you mention community. Those are all related concepts I've also been thinking about a lot. I think another one you could throw in here is culture.

How do you think those different concepts or words play together in the next era of brand-building? Community, culture, authenticity. It's all centered around listening, in my opinion.

Brands need to listen more, and when they listen to the community and what they're saying online, they could learn, number one, and number two, then they could provide real solutions that are authentic to that community and what they truly want.

A lot of brands, at least over the course of my lifetime, have been talking to us the whole time,

and when we get to the point where they listen and then react, those are the brands that actually truly make a difference on this planet because they're, they hear the struggles of the community.

They might hear about things that matter most to them, and then they can build their brand around that. That's what's so special about Web3.

You could build communities, listen to them about a new product, and then run with it and create it for them. That's just so different than anything we've ever seen, at least in my lifetime.

And what's very interesting that is how you just described Web3, most of the people I asked about this, they would describe it as a technology, but you changed the perspective.

You described it as something brands can do with it. It's about community, and that's very refreshing to hear that.

Is there a specific project you have in mind that you did at Vayner3 or you did at Mastercard where you played this very, very well? I, I have to go back to, I would say, the Mastercard Artist Accelerator.

It was one of the first projects that I worked on at Mastercard, and we're going into our second season this year, which I'm so excited about, which allows us, again, to, to bring five emerging artists that are not familiar with the technology of Web3 and blockchain, and bring them through what it means in their careers and how they could use it to grow their community, and how they could use it to make money in this new digital economy.

They're all small businesses in their own respective way, if you think about it, right? And Web3 technology could help them maybe go on tour faster.

It could help them figure out how to distribute merchandise, how to provide utility to those consumers or those first thousand fans that were truly there for them, providing backstage access and all that.

So these are the things that we're doing with the Artist Accelerator. This year, we're actually going on tour.

We're allowing them to go on tour and see what it feels like to get on stage live, 'cause live experiences are back. The world is open now, so we're excited about that journey for them.

Another thing I wanna ask you about is when you're now working with those brands and artists, and the experience you now gathered at Mastercard and Wayna3, what are some challenges that you came across, or where do you see our space going in the next one, two, three years?

Where do you see the biggest hurdles for mass adoption at this point?

I think some of the brands that I've worked on over the course of my career, there were moments where, let's say, a marketing manager was the one that wanted that moment to highlight.

They wanted to do something in Web3 for a moment in time. And where I see the risk is not bringing in the rest of the organization and onboarding them in terms of why.

So when you think about a committee of people within an organization, the legal team, the regulatory teams, the marketing, finance, all of those people are, are actually very critical to launching a program that's not just a one and done, but that's long term.

Because then you could get them behind the why, and the why is technology h- is changing. We're in Web3 now, and we're not gonna go in reverse. As much as the headlines might change, technology doesn't go in reverse.

It only goes forward.

So I'm very excited to see how blockchain applications will change over time, but the risks are if you don't get everybody involved internally and you don't educate, you'll lose the opportunity for everyone to move forward with you.

And if one person at the company knows best, host sessions, right?

Like, host lunch and learns, get them on board, show examples, and that's why I actually really love the work that you're doing because the work that you're doing on LinkedIn, you inspire people to dive a little bit deeper.

I wish more people in organizations had someone like you within e- within those organizations to really inspire. That would help us move faster.

I guess y- you're the person at Mastercard and in your previous organization with Wayna3 that did that. You're still doing that a lot as well on LinkedIn.

Was that a difficult task for you, or did you feel like people pretty easily understood of what you're talking about and where this could be going and got the bigger picture?

There have been people that I've talked to that have been very positive and open to technology. Not just blockchain, I'm talking about over the course of my career when QR codes were, like, hot.

They still are at the end of the day. Look at that, look at that cycle, right? QR codes at one point were like, "I'm not gonna use a QR code," and then eventually now they're, like, everywhere.

Even social media, I remember when social media first came out, brands were like, "Why are we gonna create an account on there? Why are we gonna talk to the community and build these platforms?"

But they, it took them a little bit time to learn. So I've had people that have embraced Web3, and then I've had people that have challenged me on Web3, and I don't think it... Actually, I'll reverse that.

Not challenged me. Maybe it felt like a challenge. When you look deeper and you double-click on it, it's actually them learning. People ask questions in a different way, right?

Some of them feel like, "Oh, well, why do we even need this? You could just use email," or, "Why do I need a... What, what does it matter? I could just right click and save," right?

That's the jokes of Web3, but they're just learning, and if you take a, a moment to teach them the why, then I've seen people get on board. It takes a little bit of time.

And when you have those conversation with those people, d- do you feel there's an area where they might ask you or ask you twice or double-click on something where you're still unsure how are you gonna answer that?

I've never been unsure. I truly believe in what's happening here. I really do. I, I got the chills just saying that. I truly believe where we're going.

And mind you, over the course of my career, I think I'm very confident in myself because I've seen things that have come to fruition that I thought of. I'm seeing more of it come to fruition.

I would say one of the things that I'm very proud of myself is that I could see around the corner.

I might not know how many bumps are around that corner, but I could see what's happening, and Web3 is definitely something I feel, and block- specifically blockchain, is not going anywhere.

Okay, then I, I would like to dive a bit deeper in, in something that you mentioned at the beginning, Web3 and AI.

And why I think this is interesting is that we're now almost at an inflection point where we have all those brands that experimented with NFTs in the last two years, and now they're retreating.

Starbucks is the latest example of ending their, their Odyssey program, and people are wondering what's happening now.

And at least that's my feeling, that we'll see a convergence of different verticals in consumer- Mm-hmm... engagement. NFTs will be part of that.

AI will be part of that, and that's why I think it, it's interesting that you mentioned that. What's your perspective on that?

Yeah, when you read headlines of, like, the Starbucks or the Dot Swooshes and others, I actually, I'm not nervous about that. I'm actually excited because the way those brand...

They have to constantly be innovating, right, and thinking about what's next. And if they say maybe those programs were pilots, right, for a purpose, and now I'm excited to see where they're gonna go with it.

Again, the technology is not gonna go in reverse. They're not gonna say, "We're not gonna use blockchain technology." They're not gonna use AI. They're not gonna use the core of where Web3 is.

It's gonna be another iteration, so I'm excited to see where it goes. I wish people would not read headlines and focus more on the core of how things are transitioning. People used to say that the internet was a fad.

Like, people used to say that, and now look at it. It's a core part of our lives. So I'm not scared.

I'm excited for the opportunity to see where things go, and I know a lot of the people that have been part of those building part of the, those companies, and I know deep down inside there's a lot more to see.

I ask if every guest who comes on the show, and I wanna ask you...

that as well is what would you recommend brand leaders, marketers sitting in those brands thinking about Web3 and all that new stuff that's coming along, how should they approach this?

What would be the, the three key steps that you would recommend them to get start, get going with that? To get going with Web3 specifically is really listen. Try to reach out to community members and learn from them.

Network. There's a lot of smart people in Web3 that a lot of people say, "Oh, this Web2 brand didn't make it in Web3." Maybe they weren't supposed to make it in Web3, right?

Maybe there's Web3 brands that are actually gonna come out and really make an impact. We assume that Web2 companies should automatically get Web3. That's not the case, right?

Like, at the end of the day, there are Web3 companies that are doing some really amazing stuff right now. They could be the companies of the future.

So what I would say is for those companies that are traditional and wanna focus on emerging technology, listen to the community, go out and there ask.

There's a ton of experts like yourself that they could tap into for consulting and that sort of stuff. And then also study.

Figure out what worked for some brands, what didn't work, and go to conferences and listen to people that are really truly building. Listen to podcasts like this, right?

Immerse yourself so you could hear people and experts speaking, and don't be scared to make mistakes.

I do a ton of mentoring with organizations like Girls Who Code, and there's a lot of negativity around failing and making mistakes, and that's just a really bad thing to have on top of your shoulders. You should fail.

You should make mistakes. That's how we iterate and move forward.

And what are some of the projects you would point them to as benchmarks or things you really like in the space or brands who did it really well or artists? Yeah. What comes to mind for you?

Right off the bat has to be Time, Timepieces. How they set up their infrastructure from the beginning set with the artist at the core, right?

Like, the artist was at the center of the circle, and then from there they created programs to highlight those artists and their communities and their specialties. And then from there, they were able to host events.

They were able to create X spaces. They were able to find those artist opportunities with other brands. That's real support for the community when you're talking about the creator economy.

That to me, like, stands right out immediately. And then the second has to be Adidas. I'm a big fan of what they're doing there. I've been to a number of their events.

I think the world of that team in terms of, like, there's no end for them. There's not a flag at the end that they're going to.

They just keep going forward, and there's something really amazing to say about that, which is innovation doesn't have an end point. I really think that's really special about them. Mm-hmm.

Cool, and what's the thing you're most excited about now with Mastercard and what, what you're planning and- Sure... things you can talk about?

Well, one definitely is the Mastercard Artist Accelerator, which please check that out. You could look it up on your search engine. And then the second is around Pass the Priceless.

Pass the Priceless is our, a Web3 marketing platform where we're providing real utility to a lot of our marketing efforts globally.

So we've released an effort with around UEFA, so a trivia-based competition that you could win prizes. As part of that we worked, we did some work around SZA and the Grammys.

We did an activation with IYK and Round21 at our major golf event, Arnold Palmer Invitational, which was a scavenger hunt across the golf course collecting NFTs.

And we have many different other opportunities this year that we're excited for, providing real utility. We're not like... One of the most important things is that the program should be the highlight.

It's not the technology. We shouldn't be talking about NFTs. We shouldn't be talking about blockchain. That's the technology. Like, we don't go around talking about MP4s, right? Like, we just don't do that.

We talk about the artist and how they're going on tour. And so I'm very much excited about just continuing our normal business efforts by and providing emerging technology to help us grow. That's the key. Yeah.

That, uh, MP4 is a good keyword. Reminds me of a sentence Chris Lyons used at NFT Paris weeks ago. He said, "I would never say I would go to an MP3 conference." [laughs] And it's the same with Web3, right? And- Yeah...

I think eventually we're gonna reach that stage where we won't talk about the term Web3 or NFTs anymore. That's the goal. That's how we know- Yeah... we've truly... And onboarding, right?

My mom should be able to create a wallet with her email address, and we all don't know how email works. Most people don't know how email works, but we use it every day. Same with a Web3 wallet.

I hope that we stop talking about seed phrases and other technical jargon and we focus more on the user experience. Cool. We're 28 minutes in, and I would like to do a short lightning round with you.

Very short questions. Sure. You can answer them with short answers or yes or no. And, uh, yeah, let's just- All right... start right off. First one, digital versus physical art. Oh my goodness. Physical art.

Your favorite artist. Shantell Martin. Why? Because she evokes emotion from her art. You could feel what she's created from the art. The most precious or dearest or most favorite NFT you hold.

That's a good one. I would say it was one of my first CryptoKitties that I minted, and then I also got a bunch for my family, so, like, those CryptoKitties were, are important to me. CryptoKitties w- was early, yeah?

Yes, very early, and during that time, people were trading via WhatsApp and- Wow... it was the wild, real Wild West. [laughs] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I actually remember a conference we had in 2018 back then in Zug, Switzerland, where the creators, the CryptoPunks came on stage. It was a gala dinner, and they pitched CryptoPunks, and they told us- Wow...

about it, and no one knew them. And at the end of the presentation, you could scan a QR code and buy one for $15. [laughs] Amazing Good times, yeah. All right, another question. Credit card or cash?

I would say credit card, but I like my digital wallet. I like to tap and pay. What's one book everyone in or outside of Web3 should read? It's right here. Read, Write, Own. This is a great book. I keep rereading it.

Read, Write, Own by Chris Dixon. Just came out a couple of weeks ago. You're the second one that recommends that. That's great. Then Bitcoin- Oh, and then one more. Yeah. I wanna say one more. Yeah, one more.

NFTs Are a Scam, back there, by Bobby Hundreds. That's a good one. Oh, yeah. Great one. Yes. Great one to have. We'll put it into show notes. Then, uh, Bitcoin versus Ethereum. Bitcoin.

First app you check in the morning. My clock, 'cause I have to shut it off. [laughs] Biggest myth about blockchain or/and Web3. That it's a scam. It's not a scam.

They thought the credit card industry was a scam too when it first came out. [laughs] Yeah. And last one, biggest opportunity of Web3.

To create true community and loyalty based off of authenticity and real connection with a consumer.

So the opportunity, like my daughter, who's starting off in her life now, you have the real opportunity to build a relationship with her in an authentic way without her just being an email address. Cool. Awesome.

That was it. Amazing. Uh, it was a pleasure having you on the show, Seb. Thanks a lot for coming. Where can people find you? Where can people learn more about the things you work on, things that Mastercard works on?

Sure. You could find me on X. My handle is bepositive, B-E positive, and then on LinkedIn. And really, I wanna thank you. You've been, really have been inspiring me. People like you have been inspiring me.

Specifically, your work has just been exceptional, and I could notice when people put a lot of effort and time into their... It's not just a quick post.

You put a lot of time and effort into your work, and I really do appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. You got it. Yes. Yeah. Awesome. All right. Thank you, everyone.

Again, if you liked that, subscribe to the show. You can find us on all podcast channels, like it and share it with your friends. It helps us keep going forward. And all the best, Seb. See you soon in New York. Yeah.

See ya. Bye. Bye bye. [outro music]